Subject: program comments

From: [email-masked] (Dale Forsyth)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 16:54:08 -0500

Jim Wilson:  As I perceive you as the author/programmer now associated
with moria, I have several comments to make, in light of messages you have
posted in the past about the program.  I use the ibm-pc version 4.873, but
expect my comments apply universally.  All the following is, of course, only
one person's opinion.
   I'm almost ashamed to admit how much I've used the program -- suffice to
say I consider myself VERY experienced.  I think I could win with ANY
character, but I would not have the patience to do so.
   I consider the ONLY reason to use the program is for my own enjoyment.
Any cheating I do is only to myself, for myself, and affects no one else; of
course mine isn't a multi-user machine, for which you are concerned.
   In my opinion, a mage is a reasonable and fun character.  I don't think it
should be necessary to change it's balance.  A priest (current character) is
ok EXCEPT that it needs an identify spell.  Either that or the shops MUST keep
identify spells stocked.  Since they do not in my version, I would quit this
character as NOT FUN anymore, except that I use wizard mode and cheat on this
point.
  I do NOT consider the 'triangle dance' around monsters a bad thing.  I think
there SHOULD be a way to outdo monsters that are bigger and badder than you,
if you have patience.
  The shops is an area that needs improvement; they should contain better and
better things as one's level increases.  After a while there becomes NO REASON
to return topside and accumulation of gold becomes moot.  It would stay more
FUN if you could BUY that HA weapon, even at 300,000 gp, when you have only
175,000 gp.  But really good stuff never appears in MY shops.
   Endless repetition of mundane tactics that you know, waiting for something
you NEED, is NOT FUN.  A little is ok, month's of my life that way is NOT FUN.
   Characters beyond the BALROG would be possible, as for example Mordred from
Mordor (Lord of the Rings), the Ring Wraiths, etc.  I think reincarnation,
perhaps with some penalty, would be I think reasonable.  (Me, I cheat with
backups, to learn, try things that if I knew I couldn't get back I just
wouldn't do, and therefore wouldn't have that particular fun, etc).
   If one thing is over-powerful, it's perhaps bashing for good characters.
When I am REALLY ready to take on the balrog, (not try it for FUN with a worse
character), I accomplish his demise, fully loaded with mana, equipment, etc,
none of which I need or use, and he dies without ever touching me.  Of course
this takes searching for months for enough speed, but bashing is the secret
(as I know you know) and reduces the game to trivial at that point.  (3 AMHD's
at one time, all always stunned, none ever hurting you; that's an example).

  My main points in this letter are Priests and others need Identify or stores
must keep scrolls, to be fun, and stores should stock better, more expensive
things as one progresses.
             Thanks for maintaining such a good program, one of the most
             addictive I know.
Dale Forsyth (45 yr-old game addict)  [email-masked]

From ucbvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!yale!cs.yale.edu
Status: RO

Article 4187 of rec.games.moria:
Path: ucbvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!yale!cs.yale.edu!
>From: [email-masked] (Andrew Berman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Possible Enhancements
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Jan 90 03:52:46 GMT
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked] (Andrew Berman)
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept, New Haven CT  06520-2158
Lines: 47

I've been playing moria off and on for several years, only recently with
version 4.87.  I have some suggestions which I'd like input on.  Most of
them would make the game *harder*, but would also increase the power
and attractiveness of some classes, like the fighter, which don't get
used as often.

The first suggestion is to give fighters limited poison
immunity.  Let them take a % damage which diminishes with their level,
up to, say 1/2 damage for a level 39 character.  So they won't get
blown away like other characters by AMHD.  They have enough problems
as it is.  And it's somewhat consistent- a fighters training may
include ducking blasts, holding their breath, keeping their skin from
being exposed, etc...

The second suggestion is to limit the power of the "cure poison" *spell*
of the mages and priests. Right now, you can fight a black mamba and
kill it without looking at your stats, because a simple relatively low
level spell will eliminate any future problems.  Keep the potion as
currently powered, though.

The third suggestion is to limit weapons and Armor based on character class,
like in D & D.  I see no reason to allow a Priest full use of an Executioner's
sword, no matter what his/her strength/dex.  If a Priest uses an edged
weapon,  have some sort of minus.  If a Mage tries to cast a spell through
Plate Armor, decrease chance of success. If a Rogue uses a dagger, give
a +3 to hit bonus.  Fighters and Paladins can use anything.  Rangers get
double damage with bows. Something like that.

My fourth suggestion is to limit max stats based on character race and
maybe on character class.

The point of the previous two suggestions is to eliminate the
demigodlike character, a 250 hitpoint, 4-hits-per-round-with-a-Beaked-Axe,
armor class of 58 character elven mage.

My fifth suggestion is to allow "disenchanting" creatures to occasionally
zap an ego weapon, low probability, but maybe "you hear your longsword scream
in agony" as it goes from an HA to zip.

My sixth suggestion is to give critical hits to monsters.  Let a Bezerker
occasionally get a good one in for triple damage.  Let a touch have
a 5% chance of being a grasp for double drain..

Any comments?

From ucbvax!decwrl!lll-winken!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
Status: RO

Article 4188 of rec.games.moria:
Path: ucbvax!decwrl!lll-winken!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
>From: [email-masked] (Matthew David Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Re: Possible Enhancements
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Jan 90 05:08:34 GMT
References: <[email-masked]>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 35
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]>

[email-masked] (Andrew Berman) writes:

>The first suggestion is to give fighters limited poison
>immunity.  Let them take a % damage which diminishes with their level,
>up to, say 1/2 damage for a level 39 character.  So they won't get
>blown away like other characters by AMHD.  They have enough problems
>as it is.  And it's somewhat consistent- a fighters training may
>include ducking blasts, holding their breath, keeping their skin from
>being exposed, etc...
>
>The second suggestion is to limit the power of the "cure poison" *spell*
>of the mages and priests. Right now, you can fight a black mamba and
>kill it without looking at your stats, because a simple relatively low
>level spell will eliminate any future problems.  Keep the potion as
>currently powered, though.

My current character is a twenty third level half-troll warrior.  The
only time I've come close to dying while being poisoned was when the
Stone Giant came up and started pounding me half way through.  Certain
races are naturally suited to certain classes by virtue of their
beginning stats.

Are mages capable of casting spells while afraid.  If so, a natural
resistance to fear would make it more even.  A ghost almost killed me a
while ago, because I couldn't attack it.

>My fifth suggestion is to allow "disenchanting" creatures to occasionally
>zap an ego weapon, low probability, but maybe "you hear your longsword scream
>in agony" as it goes from an HA to zip.

This could be rather expensive, considering the cost of all the computer
equipment that would be destroyed when a person's dagger (HA) (+8,+8)
gets zapped.

				Fletch

From ucbvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p
Status: RO

Article 4193 of rec.games.moria:
Path: ucbvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.
>From: [email-masked] (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Re: Possible Enhancements
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Jan 90 17:00:57 GMT
References: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked] (David M Tate)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh, Comp & Info Services
Lines: 35

Andrew Berman lists a number of possible enhancements for later versions of
Moria.  Some of them, I think, bear serious consideration.

In particular, I think that the idea of distinguishing various character
classes even more sharply is a good one.  I agree wholeheartedly that the only
weapons usable by a priest should be mace/morningstar/hammer/club/flail types.
No one but a fighter, paladin, or ranger should be able to wield a 2-handed
sword or Executioner's Sword.  No matter how strong a mage gets, he should not
be able to fight effectively with anything heavy, nor able to cast spells
effectively while wearing heavy armor.

One way to reduce the mage/ranger advantage would be to implement a "setup
cost" for the switch between magic mode and fighting mode: you can't cast a
spell in the round immediately following a slash/fire move.  This makes some
sense, as one would in general have to "prepare" a spell before casting it.
Similarly, one would expect the act of praying to take some finite time.
(For that matter,eating should take some time--a character interrupted while
eating would have the option of finishing the meal (while getting stomped) or
abandoning it (in which case the remainder is lost--trampled in battle, or
some such).

One touch of realism that I would like to see is more more NPC's to pick up
things.  I know this can be done, because ghosts do it already.  Can you
really imagine a hobgoblin coming into a room and *not* picking up the gold
and gems?  This would add the challenge of preserving items to the character.

Similarly, why can't you get your stolen gold back from a dead rogue?  What
did he do with it?  Hide it?  If you're a rogue yourself, you should be able
to (a) keep him from picking your pocket, and (b) find where he hid it.

Just a few ramblings...

--
==============================================================================
          David M. Tate        | "I do not know which to prefer: the beauty
    [email-masked]    |  of inflections, or the beauty of innuendoes;
                               |  the blackbird whistling, or just after..."